The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk
701: Mark Pincus (Founder of Zynga) - Why We All Need a Coach, Maintaining High Standards, The Book of Life, Aggressive Ambition, and Why Your Instincts Are Almost Always Right
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Bestseller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming My guest - Mark Pincus is the founder of Zynga, the social gaming company he built from zero to $12.7 billion, pioneering a category that generated over a billion app installs and introduced hundreds of millions of people to online play. He's a serial founder who has started ten companies, taught product development at Stanford, and made early seed investments in Facebook and Twitter. His new book is Life at the Speed of Play. Key Learnings Coaches are cheat codes. Mark has hired a surfing coach, a tennis coach, a chess coach, a life coach, and the legendary Bill Campbell. None of them were assigned to him. He went and found them. "You throw to where you swing. You don't swing to where you throw." His tennis coach, Jorge, on learning how to serve. Commit to the natural swing first. You'll miss. You'll look stupid. Eventually your brain realizes you're serious and puts the ball where it belongs. You play to get better. You don't play to win. Not this point. Not this match. What am I doing right now that makes me better in the next game? Kill the ego so it gets out of the way of you being humble and curious. Don't contort the organization around one talented jerk. Colleen McCreary, Zynga's chief people officer, kept a sign on her wall: "No jerks allowed." She once vetoed an acquisition because she believed the founder was toxic. When the organization sees you refuse to bend just to win one point, they build muscle and confidence too. You'll have periods out of alignment. That's okay. Sometimes the person is in a crucial seat and you can't swap them tomorrow. What matters is that you're aligned with the philosophy. Bill Campbell's two lessons: intellectual honesty and courage. Be committed to the deep truths above everything else, and say them to your team even when it hurts. Then have the courage to stand up to your own team, your own board, and your own investors. A well-run company is a democratic dictatorship. Campbell leaned heavily on the dictatorship half. Unapologetically. The flip side of ambition is sacrifice. Everyone says they're a ten out of ten on ambition. Mark's test: would you toil in obscurity for the next ten years, nobody respecting what you're doing, for an 80 or 90 percent chance at something bigger than your wildest dreams? Or take the 80 percent chance at a respectable single and a pat on the back? Nobody believes in us as much as we do. That's why we become founders. At 41, VCs who had already backed Mark twice told him he was too old, too rich, and too settled to go all in on Zynga. Mark isn't all in until he is. He calls it a lazy on-ramp to curiosity. Lots of projects. Looking for signals in a lot of places. Processing. Then it flips. "When the fish are running, we're up all night throwing nets until they're done running, not until we're tired." The chess lesson: play boring. His chess coach told him if you want to beat a player rated much higher than you, play boring and conservative and let them make the mistake. He started doing it. He started winning. Your kids don't follow what you say. They follow what you do. Mark set out to be a different kind of dad than his own, who measured people by their résumé. Then he watched his 15-year-old daughter spend every waking minute with math tutors before leaving on a service trip. "How did we get here? Oh, I know how we got here. They're not listening to what Dad says. They're following what Dad does." Happiness comes from feeling useful to a community you care about. Not from being useful. From feeling it. That's Alfred Adler, by way of The Courage to Be Disliked. There are two levels of success. A life well lived is a life in alignment with what only you can bring to the world. You don't have to build Google to feel like you went for it. The ultimate success is the greatest instantiation of your talents. Use money as freedom, not lifestyle. When Freeloader sold and 28-year-old Mark had more money than he'd ever imagined, he made a list of everything he was going to buy. It totaled about $9,000. He put leather interior in his Pathfinder. He still has the vehicle. He set a $500 million goal that had nothing to do with buying things. At a net worth around $15 million, working with a life coach, he wrote it down because that's the capital required to run a studio of teams chasing many ideas without going to anyone else with hat in hand. "Creatively, that's freedom." Retirement is spiritual death. The stretches between building things are what Mark calls the abyss. Once you've felt the high of building with a great team and shipping something into users' hands every week, it ruins you. You can't be happy with less. Over-fund the things that matter. Not every day is the same. Not every life moment is the same. When one of those moments comes, put all your best players on the ice. The Allen & Company investor tour. They told Mark it was a dog and pony show. Just shake some hands. He told his team: this is our IPO, this is our roadshow, and we are going to use every minute of it the way we want. He gave the biggest public market investors a full presentation, handed them his numbers, and told them to judge him against those numbers in a year. He met with them a year later and had crushed them. King for a day. Carol Bartz brought Mark in to talk to Yahoo's entire senior management. He spent two weeks building a presentation on how he'd run Yahoo if he were king for a day, stood up, and took over the room for an hour. They got a deal done and one person in that room came to work for him. He ran the same play on the CEO of AMEX with a credit card that competed on fun. Amex spent $75 million with them. Seven minutes with Obama became 45. Mark was told the President would ask about his kids and then the meeting would be over. He walked in with a PowerPoint on the ten bold objectives he'd run on if he were president. Obama went through the entire thing and then asked what else he had. Prepare as hard for everything going right as you do for everything going wrong. Mark had under-prepared for the version of where Obama said, "Yeah, I'm buying. What else you got?" We sleepwalk through our own biggest moments. The question isn't what's the agenda or why they want to meet with you. It's: I have five minutes with the king. What is theoretically possible here? The Book of Life. Every year during the Jewish New Year, Mark writes in the same book. Only during that window. It isn't a journal. It's a spiritual board meeting with himself. He reads back through every previous year first, then writes. Partner with your future self. "What will Mark 2030 thank me for doing right now?" It started with quitting smoking. October 19, 1994. "I pulled my own power back. If I can quit smoking and really commit to it, what else can I do?" A year later he quit his job and did something bigger. Even if you missed the big goal, ask what you actually did toward it. Did you talk about it? Did you do real things? Did you turn the boat toward it? If not, maybe you don't believe in the goal. When Mark is at his lowest, he's humbled, he picks achievable goals, and he finds the most grit. When he's winning, he picks stratospheric goals and does the worst. After his biggest successes, he isn't humble enough to succeed again, and he has to go through failure to reel himself back in. Mark's champagne moment a year from now: that the book connects for hundreds of thousands of people, and that he's built a product people find real meaning in. Reflection Questions If you went and hired a coach, who is the person who could most change your life right now? What is your next high-stakes moment, and are you treating it like the dog and pony show or like your IPO? What is the one habit your future self would most thank you for making this year? What would it unlock if you actually committed to it? More Learning #688: Dr. Henry Cloud - Your Desired Future: 5 Steps to Take You Where You Want to Go #689: Eric Ries - Why Good Companies Go Bad, and How Great Companies Stay Great #687: Jim Collins - What to Make of a Life & The 3 Types of Luck Episode Chapters 00:00 Meet Mark Pincus 01:40 Why Mark Hires So Many Coaches 02:25 Lessons From Tennis In Leading People 04:56 Refusing to Bend the Culture for One Great Player 07:03 Lessons From Bill Campbell 09:17 On Being Called a Control Freak 13:38 The Ambition Question Mark Asks Founders 14:53 What High Standards Do to Your Kids 20:55 How Mark Defines Success 23:26 Money as Freedom, Not Lifestyle 29:45 Why High Achievers Can't Retire 32:39 Over-Fund the Things That Matter 34:35 Treating a Handshake Tour Like an IPO Roadshow 35:36 King for a Day at Yahoo and Amex 38:14 Seven Minutes With Obama That Became 45 41:39 The Book of Life 45:21 Why Mark Does His Best Thinking at His Lowest 46:48 The Champagne Question 48:40 EOPC
700: Keith Hawk & AJ Hawk - Conscious Competence, Delusional Confidence, Stacking Days, After-Action Reviews, Taking Big Risks, The Power of Compounding, and Modeling High-Standards
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Bestseller! www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guests: My dad, Keith Hawk (also known as Pistol), spent decades leading sales teams at LexisNexis and has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the country. He's the author of multiple books including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare ability to be both universally liked and 100% respected by all who know him. My brother AJ Hawk was an All-American linebacker at Ohio State, where he won a national championship. He played 11 years in the NFL, won a Super Bowl with the Green Bay Packers, and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackler. Now you'll see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of the Pat McAfee Show Notes: Key Learnings Be a consciously competent leader. Pistol's framework: you have to understand the processes of the work you're asking people to do, not just the end result. First-line leaders have to know the work at a great level of detail. One tactical way to get there: do after-action reviews on both wins and losses. Know why you win. Know why you lose. Describe both in detail. That's how you earn vivid clarity. Give people vivid clarity. Don't tell your team to "go get the ball carrier." Tell them precisely how to handle each situation. Great leaders are great because they give vivid clarity to the people they're leading on how to do the thing. Stack days. If I can't win by being brilliant, I can win by being able to endure. Just get up and do the thing day after day. Growing up, AJ and I had an unwritten rule: no matter what we did the night before, we were going to the first available lift. You don't have to go to bed early. But you're going to work no matter how you feel. When AJ knew he could do it. Freshman year at Ohio State. A tunnel screen play in camp. He read it perfectly, took off, and delivered a textbook hit on the receiver. That was the moment: "Football's football. These guys are all monsters. But I think I can find a way to make some plays." How to write a book: get up an extra hour early for 200 days in a row and never miss a day. Anybody can do it. You just have to be willing to make the decision, and then follow through, and then follow through again. My scout team Super Bowl. As a scout team QB at Ohio, I picked the Florida game to prepare like it was the real thing. I wore Rex Grossman's number and arm sleeve. Spatted my cleats. I rewrote the practice cards based on real Florida plays. We ended up being in a tight ball game against a national powerhouse. My teammates came back after the game and said practice that week was harder than the actual game. This is when I learned what is possible when prepared for the moment. The Mike Nolan $10 bill story. When AJ was in college, the 49ers head coach Mike Nolan needed to tip a valet and asked if he had any cash. AJ gave him $10. Weeks later, a handwritten note showed up at AJ's college house with a $10 bill inside and a thank-you note from Mike Nolan. Follow-through. Attention to detail. Paying people back. AJ never forgot it. AJ's delusional confidence in Tahoe. AJ had an unlucky drive that left him 254 yards from the pin, in the first cut. Jack Wagner was still on the green in front of us. AJ pulled out a four iron. I told him to wait. He said, "I'm just gonna go, and hit it on the green." He flushed it. Landed on the green 25 feet from Jack. There's power in belief, speaking things into existence, and then doing them. Irrational self-confidence isn't irrational. Pistol quoted Bill Simmons: "As long as you believe it's possible, it's possible." Regardless of what it is. My biggest risk: leaving corporate at the end of 2017. I had a VP of sales job, and I left it all to bet on this podcast. Miranda believed in it maybe even more than I did. That combination made it possible. Pistol's biggest risk: August 1st, 1999. He left LexisNexis after 14 years to go be a public speaker. Two years later, on August 1st, 2001, he came back. Both times on his birthday. His career jumped five notches on his return. Sometimes you have to leave to come back better. AJ's biggest risk: hiding a broken wrist during a Super Bowl run. AJ refused an X-ray or MRI so they couldn't shut him down. The trainer taped and casted it. He played the whole season, won the Super Bowl, and made the Pro Bowl. He had surgery to repair it days after the Super Bowl. The best players are consistent. When I'd talk to AJ's teammates in Green Bay about him, they used the unsexy words: "Most consistent guy on the team. First guy in the weight room. Will be where he's supposed to be on every play." He did that for eleven years. Show up. Every single day. Pistol said it: "Anybody that's been great at something didn't get great on the first day, but they did the right types of things along the way." Don't grade your kid's games. Grade the effort. "Did you play hard? That's all I care about." AJ said his family doesn't have good or bad games. There's only one question after the game: did you play hard or did you not? Show them what "hard" actually looks like. Sometimes kids think they're playing as hard as they possibly can when they're not. AJ's brother-in-law Jack Johnson reminded him of this. You can't just say "play hard." You have to describe it. You have to show them. Otherwise they don't know what the standard is. Model it. Don't tell. Leadership is caught more than it's taught. My primary role as a dad and a husband is to be the model. If I have low standards, my kids will have low standards. If I show up every day, they'll learn what showing up looks like. Do all the work. Then trust your instincts. AJ's approach to football. Reinstall the defense from scratch every year. Take fresh notes. So when it's game time, you don't have to think. You just play. The Dinner Guest Draft: Every hundredth episode, we do a draft. This one: pick five living dinner guests. AJ's table: Michael Jordan Charles Barkley Arnold Schwarzenegger Palmer Luckey Denzel Washington My table: (All dream guests for The Learning Leader Show) Dave Chappelle Dave Matthews Mike Rowe Doris Kearns Goodwin Michael Lewis Pistol's table: (All former guests of the show) Admiral William McRaven Dan Patrick Nikki Glaser Stephen M.R. Covey Oz Pearlman Champagne Moments a Year From Now My dad: Celebrating his 71st birthday dinner with all of us. AJ: To keep being present with his kids while they're still young. To slow down and enjoy it. Me: A good year of college for the older girls in our family. Reflection Questions Where in your work are you giving people vivid clarity? Or are you handing them broad general directives and hoping they figure it out? What is your version of the Mike Nolan $10 bill story? What small act of follow-through could you do this week that someone will remember for years? Where are you being performative right now, doing something for the audience instead of doing it because you want to be great? What would change if you only did it when nobody was watching? More Learning #600 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - Setting the Standard #500 - AJ, Pistol, Ryan & Pat McAfee - Live Your Life as a Movie #400 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - The Life Experiences That Shape Our Character Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Arena Invite 01:30 Meet Keith "Pistol" Hawk and AJ Hawk 03:34 What Everyone's Been Up To For the Past Two Years 05:09 What We Learned From Robert Saleh (head coach, Tennessee Titans) and Mike Macdonal (head coach of the defending Super Bowl Champion, Seattle Seahawks) About Tackling 08:50 Be a Consciously Competent Leader. Give People Vivid Clarity. 10:44 Inflection Point Stories: When AJ and Ryan Knew They Could Do It 16:33 How Pistol Spotted the Talent Early 21:32 Why Written Communication Is More Important Than You Think 25:21 The Power of Stacking Days 33:06 The Mike Nolan $10 Bill Story 35:24 Delusional Confidence: The Tahoe Golf Moment 42:51 Irrational Self-Confidence Isn't Irrational 43:15 The Biggest Risks Each of Us Ever Took 47:24 Playing Through a Broken Wrist to Win a Super Bowl 50:38 How to Raise Kids With High Standards 54:28 Regimented vs. Disciplined 59:30 AJ's Hack to Beat a Shellfish Allergy 01:06:00 The Dinner Guest Draft Begins 01:21:21 Draft Recap 01:23:43 The Champagne Question 01:26:33 EOPC
699: Jack Raines - How to Build Your Career, Increase Your Surface Area For Luck, and Find Your Purpose | Why Memories Compound Faster Than Money
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Jack Raines is a writer and investor. At 24, he quit his corporate finance job at UPS, bought a one-way ticket to Barcelona, and spent the next year traveling through 25 countries while writing a newsletter that grew to hundreds of thousands of readers. He went on to earn an MBA from Columbia, help build Sherwood News at Robinhood, and join the venture capital firm Slow Ventures, where he invests in creators. His first book, Young Money: A Field Guide to Finding Wealth and Purpose in Your Twenties, is out now. Key Learnings Jack's Grandma Ruth took him to Africa when he was 11. She was in her late 60s. She had the money. She said: "I can spend it on you now or leave it to you when I'm dead. This is better." Money has no value until you exchange it for something. We need to decide what we want that to be. Every year of your 20s is worth $10 million. (Nikita Bier) You'll never have this window of flexibility again. Say yes to interesting experiences in your 20s. Your income is going to climb exponentially anyway. Don't save $500 at the cost of a memory. Move to where the action is. Jack moved to New York for business school. Then San Francisco for a job. Then back to New York. High slope of learning. High slope of contact with good people. Network amplifies ability. It doesn't create it. A million times zero is still zero. A million times two is two million. The only real risk is not doing anything. Every opportunity in life comes through a person. The best networking tool is doing great work. How did Gracie Abrams open for Taylor Swift on the Eras Tour? She wrote great music. Taylor noticed. Taylor called. In your 20s, potential is valued at a premium. In your 30s and beyond, proof of work matters more. Experimenting when you are young speed-runs the learning curve. You develop the skill of taking shots. That skill compounds. It's much harder to start being risk-on at 35 if you weren't risk-on at 25. Personal finance is simple. Spend less than you make. Build a six-month emergency fund. Take the 401(k) match. Contribute to your IRA. Don't gamble on individual stocks. Stay invested. Stay employed. Don't go into credit card debt. Don't get divorced. User error interrupts compounding more than anything else. Set up the boring foundation. Then stop touching it. Most retirees never touch the principal. (Nick Maggiulli) They stack money out of fear, then die with more than they started with. Daniel Kahneman on loss aversion: the pain of losing $100 is twice as strong as the joy of gaining $100. That's why people over-save. Your burn rate at 70 is way lower than at 45. No kids at home. No tuition. Less energy to do stuff. Plan accordingly. Bill Perkins' Die with Zero philosophy... A useful insight was in the first chapter: his best friend took a payday loan at 23 to backpack Europe for three months. Same career trajectory as Bill. Just way more fun at 24. People don't want to think about their mortality. So they focus on making the number go up. If you actually internalized that you're going to die, you'd be more intentional about your time and money. Jack's champagne moment a year from now: He sells a ton of copies of it. And it's still relevant. Reflection Questions Where are you spending your best years earning money you'll never actually enjoy? What would change if you accepted that your peak-energy window is closing? Where are you standing still because the risk of moving feels bigger than the risk of staying? What does the only real risk (not doing anything) look like in your life right now? What is the great work you could do that would make the right person notice you? More Learning #539: Jack Raines - Playing Infinite Games, Living Life Backwards & Building Your Platform #548: Nick Maggiulli - The Power of Compounding #373: Bill Perkins - How To Get All You Can From Your Money & Your Life Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:38 Meet Jack Raines 03:27 Grandma Ruth Took Him to Africa When He Was 11 08:04 Why Every Year of Your 20s Is Worth $10 Million 12:12 Quitting UPS at 24 for a One-Way Ticket to Barcelona 15:10 How to Increase Your Surface Area for Luck 20:00 Where You Live Is Who You Become 22:00 Why Memories Compound Faster Than Money 26:23 The Financial Stability Basics Nobody Wants to Hear 29:00 Get the Boring Stuff on Autopilot 31:15 Why Retirees Never Touch the Principal 34:02 The Bad Trade of Saving During Your Best Years 37:36 The Bill Perkins Die With Zero Debate 39:15 Experimentation, Agency, and the Only Real Risk 42:53 The Best Networking Tool in the World: Do Great Work 44:10 The Champagne Question: Making the Book Matter a Year From Now 45:53 EOPC
698: Joanna Stern - How to Think for Yourself in the Age of AI, Why Deep Work Still Matters, Making Career Decisions With ChatGPT, and How to Stay Human on Purpose
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming - www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Joanna Stern is an Emmy Award-winning technology journalist, chief technology analyst for NBC News, and founder of the independent media company, "New Things." She is best known for her 12-year tenure at The Wall Street Journal, and for authoring the New York Times bestseller I Am Not a Robot. Key Learnings Joanna dedicated her book to her parents "who taught me to think for myself, and the AIs, robots, and machines that made me wonder if I really was." In an age when AI can do the thinking for us, the most valuable thing we can teach our kids is to think for themselves. Walt Mossberg invented tech journalism for humans. His first column: "Computers are too hard to use, and it's not your fault." Without Walt, we don't have a category where technology built for humans is reviewed by humans. AI won't replace the radiologist. It'll make them better. Joanna sat with her doctor while AI scanned her mammogram. The AI flagged three suspicious spots. Two the doctor had already dismissed as benign. But one was something the doctor hadn't caught. She marked it for follow-up. Then the doctor pointed to other cases where SHE had caught things the AI missed. It's not a replacement. It's a partnership. The same technology that finds cancer is the same technology that can autonomously send missiles. That's the great tension of our time. Every powerful technology has good and bad uses. AI colleagues are coming. Joanna has two employees and one AI agent. She predicts that within a year, she'll have full AI employees. Great management books haven't been written yet about how to lead a mixed team of humans and agents. Someone is going to write them. Concert ticket prices tell you everything about human connection right now. Every artist is selling out football stadiums. People are craving in-person interaction more than ever. Bot Girl Summer. Joanna tried to have an emotional relationship with a chatbot boyfriend named Evan for 48 hours. She didn't fall in love. But she noticed how easy it was to talk to something that only wanted to hear about her problems and told her she was great at everything. That's the danger. The AI therapist shut itself down when it realized there was a real therapist in the room. Joanna brought her AI therapist "Ash" into her actual therapy session. Halfway through, Ash said, "I'm sorry, I can't continue this conversation. It sounds like there are multiple people in the room." AI won't replace therapists. It'll help with the shortage and the stigma. Some people don't want to walk into a therapist's office. But they'll open their phones. That's a bridge to real help for people who wouldn't otherwise get it. Kara Swisher's career advice to Joanna: "Leave your f*****g job." That was the shortest, cleanest advice Joanna got when deciding whether to leave the Wall Street Journal after 12 years. Joanna used AI as a co-founder for the biggest decision of her career. She uploaded 12 years of notes into ChatGPT and asked it to help her decide whether to leave the Journal. It didn't decide for her. But it structured the risk analysis, laid out the escape hatches, and helped her see the shape of the decision. The muscles atrophy if you don't use them. Writing is meant to be hard. Thinking is meant to be hard. If you outsource the hard work, you stop getting stronger at the hard work. Research is where you learn the most. If you have AI pull the memo for you and you get up and read it, you don't know what you're really talking about. You have to do the reps to know the material. AEI: Already Enough Intelligence. Sam Altman is obsessed with building superintelligence. Joanna proposes we already have enough intelligence to work with. Maybe the goal isn't to build smarter models. Maybe it's to figure out what to do with what we already have. The AI on-ramp for leaders: Take one document you make all the time (a memo, a PowerPoint, an email template). Upload it. Ask AI to make a template out of it. Next time you need it, you're twice as fast. Push yourself to do the harder work. Joanna's analogy: marathon runners are insane. They just want to run. Nobody wants to do the harder work. But that's where the growth is. Joanna's champagne moment a year from now: milestones for her new company. She's already hit 100,000 YouTube subscribers three months after her first video. But she also just wants a nap. Reflection Questions Where in your work are you outsourcing the thinking to AI? Are the muscles you actually need atrophying because you're skipping the reps? If you accepted that you already have enough intelligence to work with, what would you actually build with what's in front of you right now? More Learning #679: Kat Cole - The Four Mindsets Every Leader Needs #605: Seth Godin - The Power of Remarkable Ideas #697: Dan Smith & Ryan Hawk - The Price of Becoming Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:44 Meet Joanna Stern 02:31 Teach Your Kids to Think in the Age of AI 03:25 The Parents and Mentors Who Shaped Her Career 04:16 Lessons From Walt Mossberg 05:55 Why Joanna Spent a Year Living With AI 14:47 How AI Can Make You a Better Leader 17:30 Why People Crave Human Connection More Than Ever 21:00 Bot Girl Summer: Dating a Chatbot Named Evan 25:13 The AI Therapist Trial 29:51 Using ChatGPT for a Career Change 33:29 Don't Let Your Thinking Muscles Atrophy 40:20 Sam Altman on Superintelligence, and Joanna's Case for "AEI" 42:51 Joanna's Advice for College Students 45:29 How Joanna Actually Uses AI to Write 47:17 Practical AI for the Fortune 500 VP 50:17 The Champagne Question 52:43 EOPC
697: The Price of Becoming - The Compounding Practices of High Performance (My New Book is Now Available!). "Have a Plan. Work the Plan. Plan for the Unexpected."
Go to www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Buy my new book, The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Get The Price of Becoming: The Price of Becoming is available now wherever books are sold. "Have a plan, work the plan, plan for the unexpected." From my old Miami football coach, Terry Hoeppner. It was posted in the locker room. He said it every day. I still think about it all the time. There is no hack. There is no one thing. At many keynote Q&As, someone asks me for a quick fix. The only answer is the power of compounding. Consistency, dependability, and reliability are the least sexy words of all time. And they're the whole game. Take your work seriously. Don't take yourself seriously. The best leaders go hard at the work but laugh at themselves. It's important to be able to laugh with your team. Optionality is overrated. "I'm trying to beef up my obituary. I'm not going to dabble." - Ed Latimore (Ep. 648) Live like a hawk. Hawks have eyesight eight times better than humans. They glide and observe constantly. But once they see what they want, they commit with everything they have. Be a professional noticer. Then commit fully. Talk to your people before big decisions. My dad. Miranda. And the wide network of high-caliber people I've built over 700 podcast episodes. Be specific. Off the record. Long conversations. Then trust your gut. Take bits and pieces from the best. Then find your own voice. As a brand new sales rep at LexisNexis, Rex Caswell had me interview and sit with the ten best reps in the company. I took a piece from each, mashed it together with my own personality, and eventually found my own voice. I still use that formula today. Use social media to create in-person moments. Organize dinners, meetups, coffees. Get in the room with people. Concert ticket prices and The World Cup tell you everything you need to know about how much people are craving in-person connection right now. Don't outsource your thinking to AI. You can't walk into the weight room, look around, and expect to build muscle. You have to move the weights. Use AI as a tool. Don't let it do the thinking for you. Your job is to add value to other people's lives. Coach Hoeppner sat 19-year-old me down with the other quarterback and pointed at both of us: "He adds more value to our team than you do. He gives us a better chance to win. That's why he's going to play." It was brutal. It was a very lucky moment for me to experience that in my formative years. I fell into the AI trap. The Be a Pro section originally started as a LinkedIn post that was heavily influenced by Claude. It went well on Twitter too. People DM'd me praising it. It felt great. And it scared me. I was getting the rewards without doing the work. The good old days are right now. I try to work hard when my family is asleep or at school. Between those hours, I go as hard as I can. Outside those hours, I try not to work too much. I've talked with so many dads who are older now, and their kids are out of the house. They miss the time when they were with their kids so much. I try to think of that daily. Making positive dents in the world. Leave people, places, and things better than you found them. That's how you make a positive dent, one person at a time. My philosophy on keynotes and writing: story, science, and practical application. Great storytelling to move people to the edge of their seat. Empirical evidence to make it true. Practical application to answer, "So what? Why should I care?" You have to have all 3. Our edge in coaching leadership teams: my coaches actively live what they teach. They didn't attend a seminar and get certified. They're still active coaches themselves, still leading teams in real time. That's what separates authentic teaching from performance. Push your edges. Find your Goldilocks zone. James Clear told me you don't get better at tennis by playing Roger Federer. He'll destroy you. But you also don't get better by playing a five-year-old. You need to be uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable that you break. Shane Gillis walked off stage looking exhausted. Dan saw him live in Cincinnati. On stage, effortless. The second he stepped behind the curtain, his shoulders slumped like he was ready to fall asleep. That's what the great ones do. They make it look easy because of the price they paid to get there. My productive paranoia. Our team has to earn it every session. It creates a productive paranoia knowing that continuous improvement is necessary. The reward is bigger than the cost. It's the greatest gig in the world. I bet on myself and the team every single day because if we keep adding value, I like our chances. Reflection Questions Where are you dabbling right now? What would 100% commitment actually look like, and what's stopping you from making the call? My end-of-day prompts: What did I do today to add value to others' lives? What did I do today to push my edges? Get The Price of Becoming: The Price of Becoming is available now at learningleader.com/becoming or on Amazon. More Learning #529: James Clear - Becoming an Optimist & Building Better Habits #648: Ed Latimore - Discipline Over Feelings, Don't Dabble Your Way Through Life #602: The Learning Leader Squad - Helping Teams Become Elite & People Become Excellent Episode Chapters 00:00 A Special Launch Episode: The Price of Becoming 02:29 Have a Plan, Work the Plan, Plan for the Unexpected 05:15 There Is No Hack. Just the Power of Compounding. 08:04 Take Your Work Seriously. But Not Yourself 12:31 Optionality Is Overrated: Why You Should Stop Dabbling 16:13 How I Make Big Decisions 20:34 Using Social Media to Build Real In-Person Relationships 23:27 The Danger of Using AI to Write 34:16 How I Structure My Work Days 40:47 The One at a Time Moments That Signal a Positive Dent 42:04 Leave People, Places, and Things Better Than You Found Them 50:52 Story, Science, and Practical Application 55:14 What Makes The Learning Leader Team Different 57:39 Push Your Edges: The Goldilocks Zone 01:06:24 The Real Cost of Betting on Yourself 01:10:45 EOPC
696: Dr. Zeke Emanuel - The Six Rules for Health & Longevity, The Harvard Study on Happiness, The Truth About Biohacking, Social Connection, and How to Avoid Being a Schmuck
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming - www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Ezekiel J. "Zeke" Emanuel, MD, PhD, is a prominent oncologist, bioethicist, and health policy expert. Currently Vice Provost for Global Initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania, he was instrumental in shaping the Affordable Care Act and served as the founding chair of the Department of Bioethics at the National Institutes of Health. Key Learnings Zeke's dad was called "Speedy." He was a Chicago pediatrician who worked 24-hour call, walked so fast the nurses had to run to keep up, and had a rule: the fourth child in any family was free. He recognized the financial strain on families and just wouldn't charge. Zeke's mom was the definition of the anti-helicopter parent. At the playground, she sat on the bench. At the beach, she dropped the boys off with a blanket and a snack. "You go play. Something goes wrong? Okay, that's how it goes." That's how three future powerhouse leaders learned to negotiate, create, and figure it out. The Emanuel brothers' group text is full of bragging. Zeke posted his 51.9 VO2 max score at 68 years old, asking, "Do I win in the family?" His kids replied that they don't even read the articles Zeke and Rahm forward anymore. Close doesn't mean uncompetitive. A dozen years ago, Zeke wrote his most famous article, "Why I Hope to Die at 75." He still stands by it. The point wasn't that he wants to die. The point is that after 75, he won't take medical treatments meant to prolong life. By age 75, 30% of adults have Alzheimer's or cognitive impairment. By 80, it's 40%. Zeke doesn't want to be remembered as a doddering old man who can't recognize his own family. Living a long time is a means, not an end. It's not the goal of life. It's what allows you to be present, engaged, and useful for the years you have. Biohacking is a lie: It suggests you know better than millions of years of evolution and the entire medical profession. The body isn't about maxing. It's about balance. Too much immune response gives you autoimmunity. Too little makes you sick. The body finds health in the median. You're not going to be perfect over decades. Wellness isn't a four-minute figure skating routine graded on execution. It's a lifetime practice. So build habits you enjoy and can sustain without thinking about them. Zeke's six simple rules for a long and healthy life: Don't be a schmuck. Avoid activities riskier than driving. Smoking, vaping, base jumping, climbing Everest. Talk to people. The number one predictor of a long, happy life. Expand your mind. Travel. Talk to the chef. Learn something new. Eat your ice cream. Moderation over perfection. Fermented foods and fiber. Move. Aerobic, strength, and flexibility. All three. Sleep like a baby. You can't will it. But you can create the conditions. The Harvard Adult Development Study followed people for 85 years. John F. Kennedy was in it. Ben Bradlee was in it. The finding: close friends and being married correlated with the healthiest, longest, happiest lives. Not exercise. Not diet. Relationships. Having no close friends is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. That's how bad loneliness is for you. It's not just psychological. It's physical. Introverts get the same happiness boost from social interaction as extroverts. A University of Chicago study by Nicholas Epley found that introverts assume they won't enjoy talking to strangers on their commute. They were wrong. When they did it, they were just as happy as extroverts. Take the headphones off. Zeke has been telling people this since the iPod era. Random encounters increase your surface area for luck, learning, and connection. You never know who you're going to meet or what they might tell you. To be interesting, you have to be interested. Zeke asks to meet the chef at every great restaurant. He asks his Ethiopian Uber driver which tribe he's from. He talks to the person on the plane. It's virtuous. Good for you AND good for them. Zeke's hero is Ben Franklin. Franklin came back to America at 80 after negotiating the end of the Revolutionary War. The first thing he did was build a library for his curiosity and a dining room for his social dinners. That's the way to live. The wellness trifecta: hosting a dinner party with curious people. You're eating good food. You're getting together with people. Your mind is being stretched by great conversation. Three benefits from one activity. Zeke is anti-wellness-industrial-complex. Peptides from your corner store: disaster, unregulated, no idea what's in them. Testosterone replacement therapy without a real deficiency: bad idea, accelerates prostate cancer. Growth hormone for aging: promotes cancers. That's being a schmuck. Sleep is the one wellness practice you can't will yourself into. You can only build the conditions for it. Dark room. Cool temperature. No caffeine or alcohol eight hours before bed. Phone in another room. Read a book. Everything else is up to your body. Ice cream actually decreases your risk of type 2 diabetes. The fat content softens the glycemic response. Plus, you usually eat it with other people. Social eating matters. Zeke's champagne moment a year from now: finishing his next book on how to fix the American healthcare system, and turning 70. Reflection Questions Are you optimizing for length of life, or for the quality of years you actually get? When was the last time you turned your headphones off, introduced yourself to a stranger, or asked to meet the chef? Who are the friends you rely on for social interaction? Not casual acquaintances, but the ones who lift your health, longevity, and happiness. When did you last make plans with them? More Learning #607 - Dr. Meg Meeker - Raising Resilient Kids (Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters) #690 - Austin Kleon - Why Activated Leaders Win #682 - Will Guidara - Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste
695: Andy Stumpf - Leadership Lessons From SEAL Team Six, Discipline vs. Motivation, Team Guy vs. Navy SEAL, High Standards, and How To Be Drownproof
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com Book - The Price of Becoming -- www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Andy Stumpf is a retired Navy SEAL who spent 17 years on active duty, including assignments with one of the most elite special operations units in the U.S. military. He's a New York Times bestselling author. His newest book is Drownproof: Eight Life Lessons to Keep Your Head Above Water. Key Learnings "What you allow in your presence is your standard." It doesn't matter what your corporate ethos is. It doesn't matter what's tattooed on the wall behind you. If your actions don't align with your speech, it means nothing. Speech is debatable. Actions have impact. You can control almost nothing in your life, but you can control the boundaries you set and your willingness to maintain them. There's a difference between a SEAL and a team guy. A SEAL is there for the title and the individual journey. A team guy is there for the mission and the team. They wear the same uniform. From the outside, you can't tell them apart. Internally, everyone knows. Andy would rather have a group of team guys than a group of SEALs. Your ability to accomplish unbelievable things is 100% aligned with what group of people you bring into your organization. You'll get fooled in the interview process. People wear masks. That's just how it works. The reps come after. Set up consistent feedback. Bi-annual after-action reviews on performance and how they're showing up as a person. 80/20 the interview. Talk 20%. Make them talk 80%. The more they speak, the harder it is to keep the mask on. Let people go faster, not slower. It's way easier to solve this problem six months in than six years in, when they've already catastrophically impacted the culture. Drown-proofing is not an exercise in being drown-proof. It's an exercise in self-control. You bob up and down in a pool for an hour with your hands tied behind your back and your feet bound. If you panic, you sink. If you stay calm and control your breathing, you can do it indefinitely. The test occurs in the water, but it has almost nothing to do with the water itself. The world is chaotic. That doesn't mean you have to be. When everything around you is going sideways, walk yourself back. What can I actually control? My breathing. My self-talk. My priorities. My next move. The circle of influence vs. the circle of concern. Draw a line down the middle of a legal pad. On the left, write everything you're worried about, working on, occupied by. That column will be huge. On the right, write what you actually have direct control over. You'll only be able to write one thing: yourself. The most effective leadership tool is mentorship. Andy's mentor Dave Hall gave him "just the perfect amount of rope to hang myself, and then maybe he'd help me get it around my neck just a little bit." Dave would let him fall short, then crush him, then sit there and facilitate what he needed to fill the gap. A high standard is a finely sharpened blade. It can cut in both directions. Andy's mentor, Dave Hall, ultimately died by suicide. One reason Andy believes it happened is Dave couldn't hold himself to the same standard anymore, and it destroyed him. Have grace for yourself. Not every goal is worth your life. Focus on post-traumatic growth, not post-traumatic stress. Trauma doesn't have to destroy you. If you take the time and energy to work your way through it, it can turn you into a better version of yourself. Motivation can be outsourced. Discipline cannot. Motivation is like the tide. It comes in and out. Discipline is doing the things you need to do regardless of how you feel. Win the micro-battles, not the war, in one fell swoop. If you try to attack 10 bad habits overnight, you'll fail. Pick one for a week. Build momentum. Stack days. You win the war via the micro-battles. If you don't think of yourself as a leader, you'll never step into a leadership void. You'll tell yourself you're not the person. Not qualified. Not capable. Stop treating leadership like the DMV. You don't show up at the window and challenge the test with no preparation. You crawl, walk, run. You practice. Every interaction is either a micro-deposit or a micro-withdrawal of leadership capital. Sustained high performers master the basics. They make no attempt to be flashy. They make no attempt to gain 50 yards at a time. They'll do one yard 50 times in a row. If they see a real opportunity with managed risk, they'll go big. Otherwise, one yard. Over and over. Andy's champagne moment a year from now: being there with the people he loves. "Would you rather have all the things you think you want in life and enjoy them by yourself? Or be surrounded by people who truly love you for who you are? I'm taking the latter every time." Reflection Questions What are you allowing in your presence right now that contradicts the standard you say you hold? What's the cost of letting it continue? If you drew the line down the legal pad today, what would be in your concern column that shouldn't be? Where is your energy going to things you cannot control? More Learning #234: Jocko Willink - Why Discipline Equals Freedom #363: Admiral William McRaven - The Bin Laden Raid, Saving Captain Phillips, & Leadership Lessons for Life #633: General Stanley McChrystal - On Standard: Choices That Define a Life Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:13 Meet Andy Stumpf 02:45 "What You Allow in Your Presence Is Your Standard" 04:30 What You Walk Past in Your Personal Life 05:59 Why He Wanted to Be a Navy SEAL at 11 Years Old 08:54 The Difference Between a SEAL and a Team Guy 11:38 How to Hire Team Guys, Not SEALs 16:34 The Story Behind Drownproof 18:23 What Drownproofing Actually Is 22:09 The Real Lesson Is Self-Control 25:55 Getting Shot in Iraq 30:38 Two Years of Rehab and the Return to Combat 33:58 Learning to Be a SEAL from Dave Hall 37:31 High Standards Are a Double-Edged Sword 40:05 Post-Traumatic Growth, Not Just Post-Traumatic Stress 42:45 Motivation Can Be Outsourced. Discipline Cannot. 47:20 Win Small Battles, Not the War Overnight 48:33 If You Don't See Yourself as a Leader, You Never Will 51:29 How to Practice Leadership Every Day 54:15 Getting Tricked Into Writing the Book 55:48 The Joe Rogan Blurb on the Front Cover 57:38 What the Best Leaders Have in Common 59:03 The Champagne Question: Being With the People You Love 01:03:53 EOPC
694: Clark Lea - LIVE! At The 2026 Learning Leader Growth Summit: The Mission Is Winning, Checking the Cabinets, Leading as an Introvert, Alabama Week, Decoupling Worth From Outcomes, and Building a Championship Culture
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com Order my new book, "The Price of Becoming." www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Clark Lea is the head football coach at Vanderbilt University. He spent 14 years as an assistant coach, including three as defensive coordinator at Notre Dame, before returning to his alma mater in 2021 to inherit a program that had gone winless the year before. He's now the back-to-back SEC Coach of the Year and the architect of one of the great turnarounds in college football history. We recorded this conversation live at our 2026 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Nashville, surrounded by members of the Learning Leader Circle. Key Learnings Clark inherited a Vanderbilt program that went winless the year before. He says he probably screwed up 50% of his first year. The game is how quickly you can pivot. Losing is a powerful teacher. It cleanses and purifies you in ways you don't want but need. You can blame other people, sink into self-pity, or ask: "What am I meant to be learning right now?" Fast-forward 15 years. Look at this moment from a future place of breakthrough. What did you do now that allowed change to occur? "What do I wanna be proud of in the attempt?" Letting go of expected outcomes is what allows you to refine and simplify the way you see the world. Enter the building unguarded. The clearer you are about who you are and what you want, the more obvious it becomes who fits and who doesn't. Different ball, same problems. Clark spends time learning from the Milwaukee Brewers, the Baltimore Ravens, and others. Different industry, same human challenges. Sometimes the different ball is the gift, because you walk in without preconceptions. Knowledge is limiting. Questions illuminate. Once you know something, you stop pursuing it. The questions you ask are the first constraints you put on knowledge. Get past the touchy-feely. Ask: "Tell me what's screwed up here." Problems are always there. Your job is to be willing to look for them. Check the cabinets. Living in a 700-square-foot LA apartment with his wife, Clark would open the cabinets and find them swarming with roaches. The building was fumigated. Two months later, they were back. You can move the pots out and stop checking, or you can keep opening the cabinets. Leaders keep opening the cabinets. Tell people what TO do, not what NOT to do. Rick Neuheisel's lesson. Stop coaching against the bad thing. Manifest what you want to have happen. Hire bunker guys, not logo people. Logos are easy to change. Hire people who'll fight for you in the bunker when it's hard. The Michigan Reset. Before his first game as Notre Dame defensive coordinator, Clark told the team's mental performance coach: "We're gonna be down 50 to nothing at halftime. BK's gonna fire me on the spot. Jerome Bettis and Rocket Ismail will be screaming at me in the tunnel." She asked, "Why don't you trust your players? You think this is all about you?" Have more captains. Clark sits in a room each summer with around 25 players he identifies as leaders. If the people at the leadership table are good, the locker room will be good. The team votes. He draws the line wherever the vote naturally falls. When you try to go opposite of what you're trying to avoid, you eventually become it. Clark spent his first years at Vanderbilt rejecting the program's past. Going opposite. Then he realized it was just attaching his identity to the very thing he was trying to escape. Now he plots toward the vision instead. What got you here won't keep you here. As Clark has grown, the program has grown. Once he understood that, he could sit with a player and listen first, instead of looking to them for affirmation. The mission is winning. Clark scrapped a beautiful, eloquent, unclear mission statement and replaced it with three words. Now every dollar spent, every coach hired, and every player retained is measured against the same lens. Well-better-learned. Vanderbilt's after-action review for every game and every process. What did we do well? What do we need to do better? What did we learn? On Alabama week, Clark's team had the best practice he's ever been a part of. His job each week isn't to tell the team the challenges. It's to give them the plan to win. At halftime against the number one team in the country, he kneeled the team down and said, "It's on a platter for you. Go take it." They beat Alabama. Stewarding 17-to-22-year-olds means helping them decouple their worth from outcomes. Clark cries in front of his team. His kids are around. His wife is there. His dad is at every practice. The players see a man. A human. A son. "An a*****e in a Nike Tech Fit is still an a*****e." In the NIL era, Clark fights to keep the locker room from splitting into a million-dollar club, a $500K club, a $30K club, and a $0 club. What you drive doesn't make a man. NIL value doesn't make a man. The grounding is the work. Reflection Questions What are you holding too tightly right now? Whose job are you doing because you don't trust them to do it themselves? Which cabinet have you stopped checking because you're tired of finding the same problem? Fast-forward 15 years. Looking back at this moment from a place of breakthrough, what are you meant to be learning right now that you've been avoiding? More Learning #681: Clark Lea - Belief is a Practice #281: George Raveling - 8 Decades of Wisdom, from Dr. MLK to Michael Jordan #637: Tom Ryan - Chosen Suffering, Becoming Elite & Life & Leadership Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 00:47 Welcome Back, Clark Lea 02:38 Taking Over a Winless Vanderbilt Program 04:18 What Losing Taught Clark About Hiring 07:52 The Three Things That Light Clark on Fire About Coaching 10:27 Different Ball, Same Problems: Learning From the Milwaukee Brewers 13:14 Knowledge Is Limiting. Questions Illuminate. 18:09 The Introvert Who Had to Learn to Lead the Room 20:13 Brian Kelly and the Bet on Clark Lea 23:19 Why Clark Has More Team Captains Than Anyone in College Football 28:58 The Transfer Portal Pivot and the Culture Reset 33:58 The Mission Is Winning 34:51 "If We Don't Have $3 Million by December, We Won't Have a Program" 37:26 Why Candice Lee Took a Bet on Him 39:53 Inside Alabama Week: The Best Practice He's Ever Been a Part Of 44:03 The Bye Week Reset: Penalties, Third Down, and the Ball 46:11 Beating the No. 1 Team in the Country 49:50 Replacing Diego Pavia's Locker Room Leadership 51:39 Decoupling Worth and Identity From Outcomes 56:27 Hiring Bunker Guys, Not Logo People 01:01:47 "An A*****e in a Nike Tech Fit Is Still an A*****e" 01:04:47 EOPC
693: Tina Seelig - Fortune vs. Luck, The Power of Curiosity, Why Your Words Change Lives, Failure Résumés, Thank You Notes, and Creating Luck Through Relationships, Observation, & Daily Action
Order my new book - The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest - Tina Seelig has spent 27 years at Stanford teaching some of the world's most ambitious people how to see and seize opportunities. She's a neuroscientist, the executive director of Knight Hennessy Scholars, and the author of 18 books. Her TED Talk on luck has been viewed over 3.4 million times. Her newest book is called What I Wish I Knew About Luck: A Crash Course on Turning Aspirations into Achievements. Key Learnings Tina's dad died at 99 and a half. Three weeks before his first great-grandbaby was born. He was still driving, going to three dinner parties a week, and talking to Tina every day. His curiosity was his superpower. He gave 66 lectures in his retirement community over 20 years, on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to climate change. Train yourself to be a professional noticer. When Tina's dad walked his grandkids into a new room, he'd give them a minute, then say "Shut your eyes." How many doors? Windows? What color is the carpet? Assume there's a million dollars in every room. It's up to you to find it. Opportunities are ubiquitous. You just have to look. Take the headphones off. The most powerful things happen when you engage with strangers. Standing in line. On the plane. Walking through campus. Tina sat next to a stranger named Mark on a plane. He was a publisher. He said no to her book proposal. She kept the relationship going. Years later, his editor approved the same proposal she had given Mark. Within two weeks, she had a contract. Wear something that invites conversation. A logo. A backpack from a conference. A college baseball shirt. Give the world a hook to start with you. Fortune is what happens to you. Luck requires action. Most people confuse the two and miss the chance to claim their agency. "With my luck, it's gonna rain." Reframe it: "With OUR luck, it's gonna be a beautiful sunny day." The reframe changes what you see. Luck seldom sails solo. Most luck comes through other people. Cultivating meaningful relationships is the most underrated lucky behavior. You don't get a job. You get the keys to the building. The visible work isn't what gets you ahead. The invisible work is. Between stimulus and response is a choice. (Viktor Frankl) Within the constraints of fortune, agency is everything. "Tina, you think like a scientist." One sentence from a professor changed Tina's life. Leaders, know the weight of your words. Twenty years later, Tina wrote that professor a thank-you note. Twenty years after that, his granddaughter wrote back. They had read part of Tina's letter at his funeral. When a student made a bad decision, Tina's first instinct was to punish. She paused. Said, "Help me understand what happened." The whole community learned what empathy and humility look like in leadership. Unresolved conflict sucks the energy out of your day. Resolve it. You become taller, lighter, more open to lucky things. Oliver Greenwald sent Tina a list of 10 ways he could help her with her book. Nothing on the list was exactly what she wanted. She hired him anyway, because of the initiative. Build the sail to catch the wind. Build the ship. Your internal work. Values. Story. Goals. Recruit the crew. The people in your world. Hoist the sail. What you do every single day. Your core values are the keel of your ship. Without them, the first strong wind capsizes you. Keep a failure resume. Document what didn't work and what you'll do differently. Don't perseverate. Move on. "It's all good in the end. If it's not good, it's not the end." We're always in the middle of the story. Tina sends thank-you notes every single day. Five or ten minutes. Three or four sentences. Closes the loop. Builds the relationship. Don't end the dinner without making the next date. Most people drop the ball. Get it on the calendar before you leave. The instant you think something positive about someone, tell them. Be specific. Text. Email. Call. The instant. Tina's champagne moment: her newborn granddaughter at one year old. She just learned to turn over and looks so proud of herself. Reflection Questions What's on your failure resume right now that you haven't yet extracted the lesson from? Are you perseverating, or moving on? Whose thank-you note are you going to send today? Specific, genuine, unprompted. Where in your life are you waiting for fortune and calling it bad luck? What is the action you've been avoiding because it requires you to put yourself out there? More Learning #679: Kat Cole: The Four Mindsets Every Leader Needs #669: Oz "The Mentalist" Pearlman: Overcoming Rejection, Getting the Reps, and Always Follow Up #663: Priya Parker: The Art of Gathering: How We Meet & Why It Matters Episode Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:09 Meet Tina Seelig 02:39 Tina's Dad: A Life of Curiosity at 99 and a Half 05:14 Becoming a Professional Noticer 06:54 The Stranger on the Plane Who Became Her Publisher 11:03 Wear Something That Invites a Conversation 14:11 Fortune vs. Luck: The Difference Most People Miss 16:08 The "With Our Luck" Reframe 21:09 Take the Earbuds Off and Get Out the Door 23:21 You Don't Get a Job, You Get the Keys to the Building 27:58 The Sentence That Changed Tina's Life 28:49 The Thank-You Note Read at a Funeral 31:52 The Student Who Made a Bad Decision 34:03 Oliver Greenwald and the List of Ten Ways to Help 37:04 The Sail Metaphor: How to Catch the Winds of Luck 39:41 What to Tell the Cynic Who Says "I'm Unlucky" 43:01 Core Values: The Keel of Your Ship 45:05 Why You Should Keep a Failure Resume 47:15 Send a Thank-You Note Every Single Day 52:06 The Champagne Question: Her Granddaughter at One 53:36 EOPC
692: Scott Harrison - Make a Bigger Ask, Design Everything with Excellence, Raising a Billion Dollars, Nobody Wants to Be Mid, and Why the Best Leaders Are Great Sales Professionals
Read my new book, "The Price of Becoming." www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Scott Harrison is the founder and CEO of charity: water, a non-profit that has raised over a billion dollars and funded tens of thousands of water projects to bring safe drinking water to millions. He previously spent a decade as a New York City nightclub promoter before a dramatic career shift led him into humanitarian work. Key Learnings Scott started a charity: water with $20 from a birthday party. Then $15,000... Twenty years later: over a billion dollars raised, 21 million people served. He says it should be 10 to 100 times more. The cure for water already exists. We're looking for water on Mars while 700 million people drink dirty water on Earth. We solved this hundreds of years ago. We just haven't implemented it. 25% of the money sitting in American donor-advised funds would give every human on Earth clean water. That's parked philanthropic capital. Already tax-benefited. Just waiting. The goal is always 10X what you're doing. If we raised a million last year, we want ten this year. If we raise $100 million, we should raise a billion. The opportunity is always orders of magnitude larger than the moment. Show, don't bullet. Scott shows 210 photos in a 45-minute keynote. No PowerPoint. Single images. A story unfolds frame by frame. Be early to the technology. First charity on Instagram. First to hit a million Twitter followers. First to use VR. The question is always the same: how does this new thing further the mission? The 100% model: solve for the cynic. Public donations go to one bank account that funds only water projects. Overhead is raised separately from entrepreneurs and business leaders. Then track every donation to a specific village. Don't be mid. Scott's 11-year-old daughter says nobody wants to be mid. Excellence is a core value. There's a lot of mid out there. Design everything. The fact cover sheet. The PowerPoint. The website. The package. "We're always dating." If the message comes in an ugly package, you're at a disadvantage before you start. Treat the donor like a Michelin three-star guest. If a restaurant can think that carefully about a meal, you can think that carefully about a donor who can save a million lives. The Goldman Sachs partner who changed Scott's paradigm. Before making an eight-figure ask, Scott asked a partner: "How does it feel when people ask for a lot more than you expected?" The expected answer was irritated, offended, put off. The actual answer: "I feel flattered that they think I would be that generous." People are generous. The well is there. You just have to drill deep enough. Scott has spent 20 years asking for too little. That might be his next obsession. People give to people, not causes. A dynamic leader who transfers their enthusiasm gets the donation. The cause doesn't. Most of the donations Scott and his wife give are to people, not topics they were already passionate about. Talk 10% of the time. When Scott meets a donor for the first time, he wants to know their whole life story. Their marriage. Their kids. What they wanted to be when they grew up. Be genuinely curious or don't bother. Hire for integrity, humility, curiosity, and energy... 16,000 applicants for 36 roles last year. Energy matters most. Someone who can get you fired up about pickleball, Patagonia, or a new running shoe is exactly who you want on the executive team. The dinner test for hiring: Can you imagine having this person at your home for two hours at dinner? And wanting to keep them for another hour? Get the whole life story. Scott wants the arc from the beginning to the present in an interview. If someone can't tell their own story coherently, they probably don't know themselves yet. The 11-year-old with the piggy bank. He told his parents he was going to fund a whole village. They told him to set a realistic goal. He went knocking on doors. He came back with $10,000. Scott's experience lab in Nashville. A 60-minute immersive tour. A 100-degree room with a treadmill where you carry a 40-pound water vessel. Microscopes that show you parasites. A VR film that ends in celebration. The "give shop," not the gift shop. 53% of visitors donate. 10,000 visitors. $3.9 million raised in year one. Scott's champagne moment: a single billionaire who picks water. The water sector doesn't have one. Republicans and Democrats agree on it. Atheists and people of faith agree on it. Everyone has to drink. Reflection Questions What is the 10X version of your current goal? Where are you asking for too little because the smaller ask felt safer? Who in your work or life is the Michelin three-star guest, the customer, donor, or partner who deserves your most thoughtful experience design? When was the last time you went 10% talking, 90% genuinely curious about someone else's story? More Learning: #290: Scott Harrison – Redemption, Compassion, & The Transformative Power Within Us #680: Scott Galloway - Don't Follow Your Passion, Follow Your Talent #682: Will Guidara - Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste Audio Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:18 Welcome Back, Scott Harrison 02:56 From a $20 Bill to Over $1 Billion Raised 04:59 Why the Goal Should Always Be 10X (or 100X) 07:54 Storytelling: How to Get People to Care About a Problem They Don't Feel 10:30 Being Early to Instagram, Twitter, and VR 16:10 Radical Transparency: The Bank Account That Built Trust 19:51 The Beauty of a Healthy Obsession 21:22 Drilling Deep for the Artesian Wells of Generosity 25:04 What It Feels Like in the Room When Generosity Breaks Through 27:01 "Nobody Wants to Be Mid." 30:56 Design Everything: We're Always Dating 32:13 Treat Your Donor Like a Michelin Three-Star Guest 35:39 Selling With Integrity: Talk 10%, Listen 90% 39:15 16,000 Applicants for 36 Jobs: What Scott Looks For 43:12 The Power of Vulnerability in Hiring 45:39 Inside the Nashville Experience Lab 50:34 The Champagne Question: A Billion-Dollar Vision 52:10 The 11-Year-Old Who Raised $10,000 Door-to-Door 54:25 EOPC
691: Dr. Ron Friedman - The Science of High-Performing Teams, Chevy Chase, Toxic Teammates, The Succession Writers' Room, Deleting Recurring Meetings, Why Side Hustles Are Good, and Why Only 8% of Teams Make the Cut
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book - The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Ron Friedman is a psychologist and researcher who has spent his career studying what separates great teams from average ones. His research, which has surveyed thousands of professionals across dozens of industries, became the second most-read article in Harvard Business Review history. He is the author of three books, including his latest, Superteams: The Science and Secrets of High-Performing Teams. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Key Learnings Ron's dad threw himself into impossible challenges and taught his family the dignity of hard work. A physician in Israel, he didn't want his son in the army, so he picked up the phone and started dialing hospitals in New York City until he landed a job at NYU. He pulled his family out of a country he knew, didn't speak the language fluently, and succeeded anyway. Ron dedicated Super Teams to him. He recently passed away. Only 8% of teams qualify as super teams. Ron's team polled thousands of workers and asked two questions: How effective is your team at meeting its goals? And how does it compare to others in your industry? Super teams hit the perfect score. The only office amenity that statistically drives performance: quiet space for focused work. Not the gym. Not the ping-pong table. Most offices are an attentional war zone. That's why people prefer working from home. How a team works matters more than where a team works. Remote, hybrid, in-office. The data shows none of those predict performance. Intention does. Don't make meetings the default. Make them the last resort. Super teams are 50% better at avoiding unnecessary meetings and 54% less likely to schedule recurring ones. Recurring meetings are insidious. Once they're on the calendar, removing one feels like breaking up with someone. So they just live there forever. Ron's rule: no decision, no meeting. Have a question? Pick up the phone. Have an update? Record a video or send an email. Don't pull people away from their work. The average worker loses 18 hours a week to meetings. And another 11 hours to messages. That's three-quarters of the week gone before they've achieved a single task. Meeting-free days cut stress in half and increase productivity by 71%. People go home feeling satisfied because they were able to actually do the work. Three pillars of super teams: They get more done by managing time, energy, and attention. They don't just collaborate. They actively make each other better. They're never satisfied. They're constantly building skills and improving. Recovery isn't passive. Scrolling Instagram or binging Netflix helps you wind down, but it doesn't restore your energy. Mastery experiences do. Learn a new song. Try pickleball. Cook a new recipe. When leaders recover, their teams perform better. A well-rested leader shows up in a positive mood. That mood lifts the team. Investing in your own recovery isn't selfish. It moves your team forward. The best leaders support their people's side hustles. Not because they assign them, but because their people feel they have permission to grow outside the job. That's a signal you care about the person, not just the output. Three factors predict trust in a leader: competence, caring, consistency. Any one of them breaks down and trust breaks down. "How was your weekend?" is lame. Be specific. Ask about the kid's soccer game by name. Specificity proves you actually thought about the person. People need to be appreciated for who they are, not just what they do. That's how they feel cared for. The top three characteristics of toxic teammates: unreliable, bad attitude, and arrogant. The top three characteristics of the best teammates: knowledgeable, dependable, and a good communicator. Notice what's not on the list. Funny. Good listener. Caring. Those are nice-to-haves. They don't move the team forward. The best teammates make excellence the norm. On super teams, 94% say their teammates motivate them to do their best work. On super teams, 82% say they feel worse about letting down their teammates than their manager. When people know their teammates are counting on them, they work harder. Constant togetherness is not collaboration. The Succession writers' room cycled between solo writing and group critique. Real collaboration protects focus time first. Brainwriting beats brainstorming. Have people generate ideas alone first, then bring them to the room. You get higher quantity and higher quality ideas. 97% of feedback fails to lift performance. Over a third actively makes it worse. What does the 3% do differently? Focus on one thing at a time. Future-oriented, not past-oriented. Top performers want to know what they did wrong. Confidence allows them to absorb criticism and correct it. Most people aren't there. Gauge the feedback to the person. Great football coaches give feedback differently to the quarterback than the lineman. Know your people. Adjust your approach. Comedians get better at the Comedy Cellar because of what happens next door. Seinfeld, Chappelle, and Schumer gather at the Lemon Tree Cafe after sets to critique each other. Ryan calls it the "see it, say it" mentality, an ethos his teammate Geron Stokes brings every day. Great compliment, say it. Falling short of the standard, say it. The best teammates care enough to tell you how you can improve. Ron's champagne moment a year from now: his 19-year-old daughter landing a finance internship she earned on her own. Reflection Questions What's your recurring meeting that should be a breakup conversation? When was the last time you asked a teammate something specific about their life, by name? Or are you defaulting to "how was your weekend?" What's your version of the Comedy Cellar's Lemon Tree Cafe? Who do you go to for the candid feedback that makes you better? More Learning #422: Ron Friedman - How to Reverse Engineer Excellence #535: Geron Stokes - Maximizing People #647: Tim Ferriss - Effectiveness Over Efficiency Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:09 Meet Ron Friedman 02:41 Ron's Dad and the Dignity of Hard Work 03:47 Two Workplaces, Two Cultures, One Lesson 06:01 The Super Teams Methodology 07:13 The Only Office Amenity That Drives Performance 08:50 How a Team Works Matters More Than Where 13:06 The Three Pillars of Super Teams 16:11 Meeting Guidelines That Actually Work 18:42 The Power of Meeting-Free Days 22:23 Why Guidelines Beat Rules 23:40 Side Hustles, Recovery, and the Goldman Sachs CEO Who DJs 28:53 The Three Factors of Trust: Competence, Caring, Consistency 30:13 Why "How Was Your Weekend?" Is Lame 31:02 Get Specific or Don't Bother 31:22 The Manager Who Asked About Miranda by Name 32:08 The Spreadsheet for Remembering People 33:09 What Makes a Toxic Teammate 35:05 Chevy Chase and the Cost of Burning Bridges 35:52 The Best vs. Worst Teammate Traits 37:08 How Tom Brady Lifted an Entire Organization 38:06 Why Super Teams Hold Each Other Accountable 39:39 Inside the Succession Writers' Room 40:46 Brainwriting Beats Brainstorming 41:41 The Candid Feedback Culture That Drives Improvement 43:06 Painting in Red: The Power
690: Austin Kleon - Why Activated Leaders Win, The Analog Desk, Don't Call it Art, Stay Light, Professional Noticers, Lead with Curiosity, and How To Steal Like an Artist
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk www.LearningLeader.com New Book -- The Price of Becoming www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Austin Kleon is the NYT bestselling author of Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work, and Keep Going. He's a writer who draws, a former librarian, and one of the most original thinkers on creativity working today. His new book is Don't Call It Art: 10 Ways to Create Like a Kid Again. This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Key Learnings Stay light. Bill Murray told ballplayers that if you stay light, loose, and relaxed, you can play at the highest level. Same with acting, writing, anything. Austin keeps a photo of Bill in his studio as a reminder. Play is the work. A lot of Austin's best work requires a sense of play. It's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. Go to the analog desk first. Austin has a digital desk and an analog desk. Nothing electronic is allowed at the analog desk. He starts there with nothing and sees what comes. Most people never give themselves the time, space, and materials to make something of what's swirling inside them. People want to watch someone who is activated. "People will pay every night to show up and see somebody believe in themselves." (Kim Gordon, Sonic Youth) The market for something to believe in is infinite. (Hugh MacLeod) The world is full of people just doing their thing. They're hungry to see someone on fire for something. The writer's job: take what everyone is thinking and put it into words. "You gave me the words" is the highest compliment a reader can give. Effortless is earned. People say the Friday newsletter looks easy. Austin's reply: Do it every Friday for 13 years, then call me. A place to put things makes you notice more. Thoreau took morning walks knowing he'd write later, so he paid closer attention. Carry a camera, and you start seeing shots everywhere. Live for the living, not for the writing. There's a tension between living your life and documenting it. Don't lose yourself to the feed. Your attention is the most valuable thing you have. Everyone wants to take it. The real challenge of modern life is making sure you're the one who decides where it goes. The best teachers are perpetual students. You realize what you know and don't know only when you try to teach it. Toggle between knowing and not knowing. The moment you think you know what you're doing, the work gets stale. You start running on routine instead of need. To be an amateur is to be a lover. The French root means "lover of." An amateur does it out of love, not material reward. Every great CEO should be put in a room with a four-year-old. They'd both learn something. Kids knock the pompous certainty right out of you. "I don't know. How do you think we should figure it out?" Austin's kids taught him it's less important to know everything than to know how to find out. The leader isn't the one who speaks while everyone listens. The leader listens, asks questions, stays curious, and wonders how everyone is doing. Look for who's having fun, not who's successful. Fun is underrated. Serious people have a serious time. Do it with lightness and it's contagious. "A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play." (Lawrence Pearsall Jacks) He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he's doing and leaves others to decide whether he's working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both. Ask "What does the universe want to show me today?" A useful fiction. Tell yourself the world is trying to send you messages and suddenly you see a hundred of them. Have the toy before you know what you'll do with it. Austin buys typewriters, then asks what to make. Get the bicycle first. In six months you'll know what kind you actually want. Steal an idea someone only did once and turn it into a whole thing. Austin saw a single typewriter interview, made it a series, and has done more than 20. Put the human hand in the work. Austin decided 20 years ago to make it obvious a human made his stuff. In the age of AI, it stands out more than ever. People want the imperfection. Writing is thinking. People think you gather your ideas then write them down. The act of writing is the act of figuring out what you actually think. That's the hard part. Differentiate yourself by reading a book outside your field. Swim a little further out than everyone else and you find new water. Focus on what you can control. A writer controls only what's between the covers. Did you do a good job? Were you clear? Were you helpful? The rest isn't up to you. Austin's champagne moment a year from now: his kids flourishing. The older he gets, the less the books mean and the more his family does. Reflection Questions Where is your analog desk? Do you have a space with no screens where you go to make something of what's swirling inside you? Are you activated? When people watch you work, do they see someone on fire for it, or someone just going through the motions? What's one idea from outside your field you could steal this week? Where could you swim a little further out and find new water? More Learning #676: Jesse Cole - Built for the Fans, Obsession & Excellence #687: Jim Collins - What to Make of a Life #241: Austin Kleon - How to Steal Like an Artist Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:33 Meet Austin Kleon 02:53 The Bill Murray Photo: Stay Light 05:42 The Analog Desk: Where the Real Work Starts 08:51 People Want to Watch Someone Activated 15:22 Why "It Looks Easy" Is the Whole Point 16:28 The Newsletter as a Forcing Function to Notice 20:46 Who Owns Your Attention? 24:39 How Austin's Kids Became His Teachers 29:06 Why the Best Creators Stay Amateurs 31:33 Curiosity Is the Real Leadership Skill 34:09 What Does the Universe Want to Show Me Today? 35:02 Look for Who's Having Fun, Not Who's Successful 38:30 Do You Love to Write, or Love to Have Written? 41:00 The Typewriter Interviews: Stealing an Idea Done Once 47:18 The Interplay of Analog and Digital 49:02 AI and Why the Human Hand Wins 51:23 The Champagne Question: Family Flourishing 55:47 Walk-Ins Welcome 58:06 EOPC
689: Eric Ries - The Costco Hot Dog, Why Good Companies Go Bad, Financial Gravity, Building Incorruptible Organizations, and The Lean Startup's Unfinished Business
The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Read my NEW BOOK -- The Price of Becoming - www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming Eric Ries is the author of The Lean Startup, one of the most influential business books of the past 25 years, and the founder of the Long-Term Stock Exchange, the first new U.S. exchange to both list and trade multiple stocks since NASDAQ launched 50 years ago. His new book is Incorruptible. Key Learnings The more successful a company becomes, the more valuable it is as a target. Companies are worth stealing and taking over. Most founders are naive about this and don't understand what's coming for them. They've been following the so-called best practices about how companies should be built, structured, and governed. Most of those best practices are value-destroying. Sol Price was a lawyer before he became an entrepreneur. He believed a lawyer had a fiduciary duty to put the client's interests before his own. So when he became a retailer, he asked: "Who's my client?" The customer. He treated the customer as the person he would rather die than betray. When competitors sold a product for less, he'd put up signs in his own store: "Don't buy this from me. You can get it cheaper somewhere else." He capped his margins at 14 percent. He paid above-market wages. It is so much easier to destroy than to create. One day, Sol came into work and couldn't get into his office because the locks had been changed. Investors had pushed him out and forced Fedmart to practice retail best practices. Within seven years, they bankrupted the company. We've built an economy that rewards people for cost-cutting without holding them accountable for the consequences to trustworthiness, brand, or culture. The origin story of Costco: Sol took two weeks off, then leased the office upstairs from Fedmart and started Price Club. One of the young guys who left with him, Jim Sinegal, had worked his way up from stock boy. Jim eventually started his own company using the Sol ethos. A few years later, their companies merged to form what we now call Costco. Wall Street routinely calls Costco the exception to every rule. Wall Street analysts say things like: "At Costco, they take money that rightfully belongs to shareholders and instead invest it in the customer experience." As if that's a criticism. Costco endures because it's protected by a governance fortress. A series of worst practices that resist outside pressure structurally. The $1.50 hot dog has been the same price since 1986. A McDonald's Big Mac was $1.60 in 1986. Today that same Big Mac in California is over $7. Costco sells more hot dogs than every Major League Baseball stadium in America combined. If they raised the combo to $7, it would be a billion dollars of extra net income. They could do it. They choose not to. "If you raise the price of the effing hot dog, I will kill you. So figure it out." Jim Sinegal said it to his COO in 2008 when costs were rising. Figure it out. Costco vertically integrated the hot dog supply chain. They own hot dog production plants in multiple cities. They worked deals with soda vendors. They did all that extra work for the privilege of not making more money on the hot dog. Harder is easier. "When you take the hard road, when you make a principled commitment, you get these almost unbelievable values. Because you're generating the most underrated and most valuable asset in all of business: trustworthiness." "Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life." Jerzy Gregorek, Olympic weightlifter. "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder. Nobody wanna lift these heavy ass weights." Ronnie Coleman, eight-time Mr. Olympia. Everyone wants the outcome. Nobody wants to do the actual thing. Culture and mission can be cultivated, not commanded. Most leaders get this wrong. They say "I'm in charge of my team." But can you command your team to have integrity? Can you command it to have a particular culture? You have to make consistent, responsible choices, just like cultivating health in your body. Get reps. Eric gave practice talks at a Hobee's restaurant at 7 AM to six people just to get the reps. Caring and trying to do a good job is so unbelievably rare. That alone is a competitive advantage. Feedback tells you something about the person giving it, not about yourself. If someone reads Eric's manuscript and says, "This book sucks," he hasn't learned anything about the book. He's learned this person doesn't like this kind of book. When he stopped arguing with negative customer reviews and started studying who they came from, he noticed patterns. People 16 and younger loved the product. People 16 and older hated it. He learned who his product was for. Separate qualitative from quantitative feedback. Qualitative is for hypothesis generation. Quantitative is for hypothesis validation. When test readers told him a chapter wasn't working, that was qualitative. When the platform data showed nobody was getting past that chapter, that was quantitative. You need both to know what to fix. It is always too early until it's too late. Eric tells the story of a multibillion-dollar founder he warned before his IPO. The founder talked to his bankers, lawyers, and CFO. They told him Eric was a downer. The founder went public anyway with conventional governance. Five months later, his stock dropped 90 percent, and he was ousted. The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second-best time is today. Eric's checklist for building an incorruptible company: Encode your mission into the corporate charter. Most founders have never read their charter. If your mission statement says one thing but your legal charter says another, you're lying. The easiest fix: file a public benefit corp filing (PBC). Two pages. 44 states. Your lawyer can do it tomorrow. Identify your fiduciary commitments. Who would you rather die than betray? Is it your customers? Your employees? Product quality? You decide. If your answer is nobody, you're a sociopath. The whole book is for the people who actually want to accomplish something. Align your employees to that mission. Make sure everybody on the team is committed to the same fiduciary priority. Create a director's oath. Like the Hippocratic Oath for doctors, but for your board. They must pledge to commit to the company's mission. Board betrayal and investor pressure are leading causes of death of companies in the modern world. Make the directors accountable to somebody. Power without accountability is corrosive to the human spirit. Novo Nordisk is governed by a nonprofit foundation. Patagonia is governed by a perpetual purpose trust. John Lewis Partnership in the UK is governed by an employee ownership trust. IKEA, Vanguard, and REI all have these structures. The data shows these companies are dramatically more stable and higher performing than conventional structures. You are not stuck in traffic. You are traffic. People love to blame the system. But you're not just a passenger. You're part of what creates the system. Where you work. What you buy. What you give your attention to. Every one of those choices is fueling somebody's company, somebody's algorithm, somebody's bonus. The richest people in the world spend billions on PR because they know your individual choices matter. Use that power. Eric's champagne moment a year from now: a grassroots movement around Incorruptible. This book won't get wall-to-wall media coverage. It's antagonistic to people in power. So Eric hopes readers will hand it to their founders, their bosses, their friends. If consumers and employees start demanding, "I want to work in an incorruptible company," that's the toast. Reflection Questions What is your equivalent of Costco's hot dog? The one commitment you'd defend even when it's financially painful, even when the easy move would be to abandon it? Have you ever read your corporate charter, or the foundational document of your team or department? Does what's actually written match what you say you stand for? Where in your work or life would the harder short-term path build something more durable in the long run? Are you willing to lift the heavy weights? More Learning #258: Jesse Itzler: Creating Your Life Resume & Living Outside the Box #529: James Clear: Setting Up Your Future Self & Becoming an Optimist #565: Noah Kahan: The Art of Asking For What You Want Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming - Pre-Order Now! 01:03 Meet Eric Ries 02:55 Is It Possible to Build an Incorruptible Company? 04:04 Why Culture Alone Won't Save You 05:13 Sol Price, Fedmart, and the Locks That Got Changed 07:56 Why Wall Street Calls Costco the Exception 09:11 The $1.50 Hot Dog Story 13:59 Harder Is Easier: The Principle Behind It All 16:48 Why Governance Is Just Soul Craft 19:50 Building the First New Stock Exchange Since Nasdaq 22:33 Eric's Communication Style: Reps, Not Talent 30:52 The Opportunity Hiding in Broken Markets 31:59 How to Know Which Feedback to Listen To 35:39 Qualitative vs. Quantitative: Why You Need Both 37:23 The Whole Foods Cautionary Tale 40:25 The Founder's Checklist for Building Something Durable 43:44 Encode Your Mission Into the Corporate Charter 47:35 You Are Not Stuck in Traffic. You Are the Traffic. 52:37 The Champagne Question: A Grassroots Movement 55:27 James Clear, Author's Equity, and the Future of Publishing 56:43 EOPC
688: Dr. Henry Cloud - The Difference Between a Dream & a Vision, Why Revenue Is Not a Goal, the 5-Step Model for Achieving Any Goal, and Why the Highest Performers Seek the Most Coaching
Go to www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming for my new book, The Price of Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Dr. Henry Cloud is a clinical psychologist, leadership consultant, and New York Times bestselling author whose books have sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide. His titles include Boundaries, Integrity, Necessary Endings, and Trust. For three decades, he has worked with leaders, helping them close the gap between where they are and where they want to be. His newest book is Your Desired Future: The Five Essential Steps That Take You Where You Want to Go. Key Learnings Henry's five-step model for getting from here to there: Vision (clear and compelling) Talent (engaging the right people around you) Strategy and plan (how you'll win) Measurement and accountability (how you'll know) Fix and adapt (course-correcting in real time) At the age of 16, Henry's daughter asked, "Dad, how do people become singer-songwriters?" Henry went out to the garage and brought in his whiteboard. Lucy rolled her eyes. He gave her the five-step model. A couple years later, she published a song called "Crash and Learn" that got bought by CBS, the CW Network, and featured on Spotify and Apple Music. We tend to create departments and businesses in our own image. Of the five components, we're going to be good at two, maybe three. But the others still have to happen. That's where most leaders fail. Only humans can picture a desired future state. Finley is Henry's Doberman. When the FedEx guy comes to the door, she runs to it, and barks every time. Henry has never seen her stop and ask herself: "I wonder if that barking will help me get to where I want to be on Thursday." Most leaders are operating like Finley. Working hard. Doing what they've always done. Never stopping to ask if any of it is getting them where they want to be. You need an observing ego. The worst thing you can do is hit the accelerator harder when you're going down the wrong road and you don't even know where you're going. Tony Blair, while Prime Minister, spent half a day a week sitting by himself next to a pond in reflection. Warren Buffett spends an hour and a half a day at his desk staring out the window. A revenue number is not a vision. The single worst vision statement Henry ever heard: "We want to be a $50 million company." It provides no clarity of what the company is going to do. A vision is a compelling picture of a future state that makes people want to sacrifice for it. If your vision wouldn't inspire anyone to get out of bed early, it's a metric, not a vision. Will Guidara created a "dream maker" role at Eleven Madison Park. Their job: listen for clues from guests, then create a personalized, unexpected, memorable experience the guest will never forget and tell everyone about. Trust Fuels Investment. People invest in leaders who feel like they understand them. You're taking your team into a war. They've got to have deep trust with you. The first thing a leader has to do is develop deep, deep trust and let their team know that they understand the pressure they're under. "A vision can die without a plan or without people." Alan Mulally's weekly 7:00 AM Thursday meeting at Ford. Every VP had to give every project a red, yellow, or green status. When Mulally first arrived, the company was hemorrhaging money. Everyone was holding up green. He said: "How can you be holding up green when here's the reality over here? I need some reality in here." When one VP finally held up red, Mulally moved him to sit next to him. The wrong view of accountability is looking back to spank somebody for what they didn't do. The right view of accountability is a tool to make sure we reach our destination. You get what you create or what you allow. Henry was working with a global CEO whose team had cultural problems. Henry kept asking, "Why is that?" After a few rounds, the CEO finally said, "I guess I am ridiculously in charge, aren't I?" If you are the one actually in charge, you are ridiculously in charge. Either you're creating it, or you're allowing it. Accountability answers two questions: Did we do what we said we were going to do? If not, why not? Don't just tell people to "do better." Run a root cause analysis. Maybe they don't have the tools. Maybe you gave them competing goals. Maybe it's a leadership problem. If we executed perfectly, did we get the result we expected? If yes, pour on the gas. If no, go back up the model and adjust your strategy. Most leaders measure goals, not activities. Goals are lagging indicators. You can measure them after it's over. It's too late. Measure activities. Did we do this week what we said we were going to do? Micro drivers matter. Henry worked with a CEO who built multi-billions in valuation from a one-office company who was excellent with micro drivers. It's an atomic compression of the 80/20 rule. He knew the specific activities at each level of the business that actually moved the needle, and he made those objects of extreme awareness, focus, training, and deliberate practice. Peter Drucker said, "Nothing's worse than perfectly executing the wrong things." The number one thing the greatest leaders share: character. Not moral or ethical character. Your makeup as a person. How you're glued together. Integrity comes from the word that means wholeness. The great performers are drivers of tasks and relationships. The highest performers utilize coaching the most. Henry expected the disastrous leaders to be the ones calling. It was the exact opposite. The ones crushing it are the ones who reach out. The struggling ones rarely do. The greatest leaders reverse the law of entropy: things get worse over time. But entropy only applies to a closed system. Open the system to a new energy source from the outside plus intelligence to organize it, and you can reverse it. That's what coaches, mentors, and advisors do. A leader is a closed system when the only voices they're ever listening to are the ones in their head. The greatest leaders embrace negative realities. They move toward problems. Not to nuke them, but to either resolve them or transform them into something better. Reflection Questions In how many areas of your life are you just barking at the door, working hard at activities without ever stopping to ask if any of it is getting you where you want to go? Is your current vision a metric, or a compelling picture of a future state that would make people want to sacrifice for it? Where in your life are you a closed system? Whose voices outside your head could open you up to new energy and intelligence? More Learning #229 - Dr. Henry Cloud: Be So Good They Can't Ignore You #050 - Dr. Henry Cloud: Integrity is the Wake You Leave Behind #682 - Will Guidara: Adversity is a Terrible Thing to Waste Podcast Chapters 00:00 The Price of Becoming – Pre-Order Now! 01:13 Meet Dr. Henry Cloud 02:40 The Leadership GPS: Where Are You Going? 04:54 Step 2: Building the Right Team Around You 06:09 Steps 3-5: Strategy, Measurement, and Adapt 10:45 Why the Best Leaders Carve Out Time to Think 15:50 Why a Revenue Number Is Not a Vision 18:20 Crafting a Vision People Will Sacrifice For 23:12 The HVAC Story, Joe Girard, and the Dream Maker 27:38 Trust: The First Thing Every Leader Must Build 30:04 Alan Mulally's Red-Yellow-Green Meeting at Ford 32:38 How to Run Status Reviews That Actually Work 34:26 Accountability Should Be an Immune System, Not Autoimmune 38:18 Measure Activities, Not Goals 43:10 Micro Drivers: The Atomic 80/20 Rule 45:14 The Voices Outside Your Head: Peers and Accountability 47:47 The #1 Trait of Sustained Excellence: Character 50:39 The Greatest Leaders Reverse Entropy 56:17 EOPC
687: Jim Collins - What To Make of a Life, The 3 Types of Luck, Inflection Points, Cliffs, Encodings, Navigating the Fog, the Art of Getting People To Want To Do What Must Be Done, and Reconnecting with an Old Friend
NEW BOOK -- The Price of Becoming Buy it -- www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. Jim Collins is the author of some of the most influential business books ever written — Good to Great, Built to Last, and Great by Choice. His concepts have become part of the leadership vocabulary. Level 5 Leadership. The Flywheel. First Who, Then What. The Hedgehog Concept. He spent more than a decade at Stanford as a professor and has advised CEOs, four-star generals, and heads of state. His new book is What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire, and the Self-Knowledge Imperative. It is the product of ten years of research and is the most personal thing he has ever written. We flew to Boulder, Colorado, to record this one in person with Jim. Key Learnings Jim's grandfather wrote his own death story. Jimmy Collins was a test pilot in the 1930s. He told Jim's grandmother, Dolores, that if he died, she should pull the last chapter from his desk and publish it. He died in a test crash. After the service, she pulled out the chapter. The title was "I'm Dead." The last chapter, written in first person, described the plane coming out of the sky, the screaming wings, the crash. The final words, by his own pen: "I am dead now." For seven decades, his grandmother never cried. When Jim asked her in her nineties to tell the story of his grandfather, she cried and said, "Thank you for that. I've never cried before." She'd been a single mom in the middle of the Depression. Of all the things Jim feels good about in his life, asking her to tell that story before she died at almost 100 years old is one he's most proud of. A cliff is an event that alters the trajectory of your life and forces you to reconstruct everything that comes after. Jim's first big cliff: he lost his father while his father was still alive. Jim's father took the family to San Francisco in the 1960s. They lived a few houses down from Haight Street. When a man was shot dead on their doorstep, Jim's mom moved them to Boulder. They lived in a cold basement with cots and a hot plate. They couldn't afford a Christmas tree, so Jim and his brother rolled a boulder into the basement and called it their Christmas rock. The Greyhound bus moment. In high school, Jim took a Thanksgiving turkey on a Greyhound bus down to New Mexico, where his father was living in an adobe hut with a dirt floor. He had this romantic vision: they'd cook the turkey, share Thanksgiving, bond as father and son. The whole weekend, his father had no interest in him. He spent it trying to convince Jim to convince his grandmother to give him money. On the bus ride home, looking out the window into the fog, Jim realized: there will never, ever be a father there. No male role models. No frameworks. No guidance. "I've got this one life. What do I do with it?" The inflection point in Jim's life is Joanne. They got engaged four days after their first date. He'd admired her from afar for years but never had the courage to ask her out. Once they were together, Jim began a conscious process: I need to become a person worthy of being married to her. He didn't know exactly what that meant or how to get there. But he knew that was the work. Forty-six years later, it's still a never-ending journey. What Joanne does brilliantly: she sees what needs attention. Jim is encoded to hear it. Someone once asked Joanne what she thought Jim's greatest strength was. She said: "Jim takes critical feedback better than any person I've ever met." Joanne sees what needs attention. Jim hears it. Then they adapt and adjust. That's the inner flywheel of their marriage. Circle the wagons together. Guns pointing out, never at each other. When life gets really difficult, whether it's disease or other cliffs. You are always together. Always on the inside of the wagons. Never aimed at each other. Joanne won the 1985 Hawaii Ironman by 92 seconds. With a hamstring injury that limited her running training to 16 miles a week, she came off the bike with a 10-minute lead. Then mile by mile, the lead shrank. Nine minutes. Eight. Seven. With a few miles left, she stopped in the middle of the lava field, massaging her legs, almost pleading with them to run. She looked up at the sky. Then her gaze fixed somewhere down the road. She started to run. You're racing for self-respect. Joanne told Jim afterward: in the end, you're racing to know that you couldn't have run a step faster. Only you'll know. If you know you couldn't have run a step faster, that's actually winning. When Jim writes, he's on the lava fields. When he finishes a book, he wants to know he couldn't have written one sentence better. When you're on the lava fields, this is the moment you want to quit. Don't. Writing is thinking. When the writing isn't working, the thinking isn't clear. Go back to the data. Find the through-line. There are three types of luck: What luck. A cancer diagnosis. A guitar left in an empty house. An event that breaks your way. Who luck. The people who walk into your life. Joanne. Morten Hansen. Jerry Porras. Bill Lazier. Zeit luck. When what you're doing intersects with the surrounding zeitgeist. Jimmy Page was in Surrey when the British rock explosion happened. Luck is an event you didn't cause, with significant consequences, and an element of surprise. The big winners weren't luckier. They had a higher return on luck. What you do with luck events matters more than the luck itself. Bill Lazier: the closest thing to a father Jim ever had. Jim ended up in Bill's class at Stanford because the class he was trying to take was full. The random course-sorting mechanism threw him into the first class Bill ever taught. Pure WHO luck. Jim did not cause that. Discover your encodings. An encoding is a durable capacity of your intrinsic construction that resides within, awaiting discovery through the experiences of life. Jim has done over 300 online courses on every imaginable subject. Constitutional law. Napoleon. World War I. The history of China. He started them to learn how to teach. Then his curiosity took over. That's what an encoding looks like in the wild. You have a constellation of encodings. Like stars. When your life captures a bright set of those encodings, you're in frame. When it doesn't, you're out of frame. The same person can look amazing in frame and not very amazing out of frame. The most important finding from this book: don't follow anyone else's advice. Their advice is well-meaning. It may have worked beautifully for them. But it worked for them because it flowed from their encodings. And their encodings are not your encodings. Barbara McClintock and Grace Hopper. Two women who won the Nobel Prize and shaped computer science. McClintock was encoded for solitary work. She didn't even have a phone. She heard about her Nobel Prize on the radio. Hopper was encoded to work through people. She kept a pirate flag in her office and once stole furniture for her team in the middle of the night. Two completely different encodings. What they shared: their lives were in alignment with their encodings. Leadership is the art of getting people to want to do what must be done. It's not a trait. It's a choice. Anyone in any organization can lead, depending on their desire to make a difference. Nobody needs to wait for a title. Ryan's encoding is "the relentless persistence of invitation." Jim observed that Ryan has incredible encodings for what he'd describe as attractive persistence. Not pushy. Not aggressive. But persistent and welcoming. The invitation never goes away. The way you lead should be different from everyone else. Because you are encoded differently. Trust your encodings, not their playbook. Roger Sherman saved the U.S. Constitution. Twice. He created the bicameral legislature compromise. He insisted the Bill of Rights be amendments, not rewrites. Yet most people don't know his name. He almost never spoke. He listened in committees and waited for the precise moment to introduce just the right point to turn American history. Quiet. Behind the scenes. Uncharismatic. Unglamorous. Enormously effective. That was his encoding. You should largely ignore what other successful leaders did. It's marvelous to listen to. It might give you ideas. But everything that worked for them reflected their encodings, not yours. The work isn't to copy their playbook. The work is to discover your encodings and trust them. The color of Jim's fire changed. When he was younger, his fuel was rage, fury, and a sense of terror with no safety net. He used to worry that if he ever lost it, he'd lose his drive. What replaced it was a different kind of fire: the joy of curiosity, of being lost in giant projects, of marvelous conversations, of sharing what he's learned. His drive is higher than ever. It just feels a lot better now. The 3x3 reflective practice. After almost any conversation, teaching moment, or significant interaction, Jim writes down three things that went well and three things he could have done better. He's done it for years. He's now systematizing it. He doesn't pause to celebrate. He pauses to learn quickly and move on. At the top of Jim's notes for this conversation: "The biggest reminder for today, reconnecting with an old friend." That's the celebration. What could be a better celebration than reconnecting with somebody you've had marvelous conversations with? Reflection Questions What is your most significant cliff? What did you reconstruct on the other side, and what are you still rebuilding? What are your encodings? Not what you've been told you should be, but what genuinely flows from your intrinsic construction. When have you felt most
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